User talk:Eighty5cacao/misc/Eloi physiology (fanon)/Weena

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The first rule of Morlocks[edit]

For previous discussion, see User talk:Eighty5cacao/misc/Eloi physiology (fanon)#The first rule of Morlocks. Eighty5cacao 15:47, 26 October 2011 (MST)

Cognitive potential[edit]

This isn't entirely specific to Weena, but I felt it deserved its own talk section. Perhaps this belongs under User:Eighty5cacao/misc/Eloi physiology (fanon)#TODOs. This is more of a note to myself than an actual question.

Assume the psychoactive-drug hypothesis that we've previously mentioned.

Suppose that an Eloi could be raised (from birth or early infancy) in an advanced society in the present day or near future — i.e., no Morlocks, no psychoactive drugs, and enough knowledge to warrant the existence of formal schooling. (This is not intended to require the use of any particular schooling method.) Might some of its cognitive abilities be slightly superior to those of present-day humans? With neoteny and progenesis in mind, consider a Cracked article on infant cognition. (TODO: Find relevant sources that actually are reliable.) Eighty5cacao 14:01, 29 June 2012 (MST) (last edit 22:25, 2 July 2012 (MST))

The answer may depend on how well the Eloi digestive system could adapt to a wider variety of protein sources. I previously mentioned the possibility that the Eloi might periodically deviate from fruitarianism; it might well be possible to take that up to eleven under the stipulation "from birth or early infancy." Eighty5cacao 22:22, 2 July 2012 (MST) (last edit 23:07, 4 July 2012 (MST))
See also LiveScience on a similar topic. The general tone is consistent with my hypothesis of high emotional intelligence in the absence of the drugs; also see specifically item 6 about dancing to a rhythm. Eighty5cacao 13:04, 7 July 2012 (MST) (last edit 20:54, 8 July 2012 (MST))
...and speaking about dancing, here's a BBC News article on "dancing" behaviors in non-human animals. --Eighty5cacao 22:12, 30 October 2012 (MST)

Another crazy hypothesis[edit]

(I don't seriously believe this is the best hypothesis; I'm just throwing it out there. This is meant to be maximally orthogonal to the other WMGs on this wiki, which explains all the "not necessarily" wording.)

Perhaps some Morlocks noticed the slight deviance in Weena's behavior. They decided to get rid of her as quickly as possible - maybe (but not necessarily) they thought she was not worth eating. To accomplish this, they deliberately drugged her in such a way as to make her more likely to drown.

The deviance itself could have resulted from Weena's displeasure at the prospect of becoming a Morlock (but not necessarily). --Eighty5cacao (talk) 16:54, 17 February 2013 (CST)

More specifically, perhaps the Morlocks wanted to kill off Weena for not finding a mate soon enough after reaching sexual maturity; the difficulty finding a mate would have resulted because Weena's "intelligent" behavior (e.g. violating "the first rule of Morlocks") would be considered dorky by other Eloi. --Eighty5cacao (talk) 18:46, 2 March 2013 (UTC) (last edit 18:17, 5 March 2013 (UTC))

Why Weena has trouble finding a mate[edit]

Generally, the Eloi do not form close personal relationships except to mate; this is probably what an IMDb commenter meant by "very sexual." Such relationships don't last very long anyway.

Weena, on the other hand, has wanted to "just be friends" with other Eloi for much of her life. Other Eloi probably misunderstand her inquiries, especially since their language is unlikely to distinguish clearly between these different types of attraction. Thus, they get creeped out and decline to interact with her further. Nevertheless, Weena persists in this line of conversation. By the time Weena actually does want a mate (perhaps shortly before the novel), the rest of her community might vaguely recognize her as the one who has been behaving a bit strangely (this is admittedly a rather big "might"). --Eighty5cacao (talk) 21:13, 14 April 2013 (UTC) (last edit 16:45, 15 April 2013 (UTC))

Sounds plausible. English has a similar problem translating Greek words for love too. --Tepples (talk) 00:35, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
This is not a complete description of the issue; remember I said that Weena looks "dorky" by Eloi standards. Perhaps "nerdy" is a better word. I still need to define what "nerdy" behaviors Weena exhibits. For a start, this might include being excessively interested in some animal or plant species, or doodling in the dirt (or arranging rocks) as a method of art/communication (whereas other Eloi would physically pass flowers around to communicate with potential mates). --Eighty5cacao (talk) 03:59, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
And with that said, I don't really need to invoke second-order fanon about pulmonary physiology and genetic mutations to explain Weena's near-drowning incident. It might have occurred simply because Weena isn't a very good swimmer; compare motor coordination issues in present-day stereotypical nerds (note: there is probably a better Wikipedia article/section I could link to here). --Eighty5cacao (talk) 22:12, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
One more thought: If we allow back into the picture the hypothesis that Eloi lungs tolerate water to some extent, it's possible that Weena's life was in no real danger. However, her nerdiness would be part of the reason for the problem to occur in the first place, and such a "near drowning" would still be uncomfortable enough that she would be grateful to be rescued. --Eighty5cacao (talk) 17:25, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

It is possible that in other situations too, Weena might attempt to strain the definitions of existing words and/or compose new words from established roots. This could contribute to misunderstandings between her and other Eloi, as well as the Traveller's difficulty understanding the Dark Nights explanation early in chapter 7. --Eighty5cacao (talk) 03:53, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

While trying to fix the dead IMDb link at the top of this section ... I noticed a poor-quality edit to the TTM article on the pre-Orain TV Tropes, including an inaccurate quote implying that the Eloi are promiscuous just because they are r-strategists. --Eighty5cacao (talk) 06:43, 18 March 2014 (UTC) (+ 18:31, 12 January 2015 (UTC))

Maintenance note: Colemanzone and Wayback Machine[edit]

I started by querying the (www.) homepage but found that most of the recent captures were redirecting to the live site. When I started from the oldest end, I found that the message board was apparently using HTTP Basic authentication; all responses for the specific topic were 401 during the time that the message board was still active. I then wised up and entered in the exact URL, looking from the newest end first.

There appears not to be a way to link to an individual post of that thread; all such links were 404 even during the time that the full topic was working. --Eighty5cacao (talk) 22:52, 17 February 2013 (CST)

Lunar phases or seasons?[edit]

Quoting from Chapter 7: "The moon was on the wane: each night there was a longer interval of darkness."

So is the Traveller talking about moon phases or seasons? The lunar phase should logically affect the light intensity of the night more than it affects the length of the night.

The unreliability of the narrator leaves a lot of slack, but let me explain why I think the moon-phase explanation is correct.

First of all, the Traveller found the weather to be quite warm, which rules out the coldest part of the winter. Second, the shorter observation time scale of a month is more consistent with what's known about Eloi cognition, even considering that Weena is above average. The Eloi would probably understand the seasons in terms of temperature and other climatic variables; they wouldn't pay enough attention to day length on a yearly scale. --Eighty5cacao (talk) 15:26, 23 February 2013 (CST) (last edit 00:17, 25 February 2013 (CST))

Cracked mentions a real example of moonlight affecting predation activity of lions in Africa (original article from The Telegraph). --Eighty5cacao (talk) 17:52, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
For the record, this section's contents are now used in the article. --Eighty5cacao (talk) 22:12, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
To expand on what I meant here: When I drafted the original version of that text (here), I had failed to pay enough attention to the first two sentences of paragraph VII.2, which already made the intended meaning clear. Hence I tried to demote the rest of my explanation to a subsidiary ("further") status. --Eighty5cacao (talk) 03:57, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Mirror (test?)[edit]

Possibly related to Another crazy hypothesis above, but I felt it was cleaner to make a new section

Another "intelligent" behavior Weena might exhibit is the use of the surface of a body of water as a mirror to look at herself. Of course, other Eloi probably wouldn't understand what she is trying to do. --Eighty5cacao (talk) 04:54, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

More specifically, other Eloi would not understand the purpose of Weena's actions even if they tried to replicate her behavior. They would not understand that the reflections represent themselves, and they would "laugh it off" (if they didn't laugh at Weena in the first place).
Of course, all this depends on there being a body of water that is sufficiently calm at the time, as opposed to the river in which Weena was found drowning. --Eighty5cacao (talk) 18:32, 1 May 2013 (UTC) (last edit 18:20, 2 May 2013 (UTC))

Satire of ungrateful rescuee[edit]

A man saved me from drowning, but now I am suing him for rape because he touched me - The Stately Harold (see also third-party confirmation that this is satire)

This is just some random food for thought relating to the collapsible box ("How would a typical Eloi respond after being rescued?") under "Emotional intelligence." --Eighty5cacao (talk) 03:51, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

It might be hard to predict. Whether sexual assault is a more serious complaint than, say, cutting someone's beard is a matter of culture and of local duty to rescue law (which in turn reflects culture). Would someone prefer intentionally delaying a rescue for 127 hours, or delaying a rescue to teach a lesson (cf. turtle question in Voight-Kampff test)? --Tepples (talk) 01:36, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
Acknowledged. I don't have a good answer to this presumably rhetorical question, nor do I have a clear explanation how such subtleties might be relevant to TTM. --Eighty5cacao (talk) 05:06, 10 May 2016 (UTC)