Difference between revisions of "User talk:Eighty5cacao/Manual of Style (songs that sound alike)"

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(An apology, and general comments on my drafting style: WP:NICKNAME)
 
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== Dubious ==
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== Interpretation of WP:REPEATLINK ==
 
[[wikipedia:WP:REPEATLINK|WP:REPEATLINK]] gives "where the links are in a table" as an exception, so the corresponding rule here may need rethinking. [[User:Eighty5cacao|Eighty5cacao]] 01:57, 6 December 2010 (MST)
 
[[wikipedia:WP:REPEATLINK|WP:REPEATLINK]] gives "where the links are in a table" as an exception, so the corresponding rule here may need rethinking. [[User:Eighty5cacao|Eighty5cacao]] 01:57, 6 December 2010 (MST)
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*As I understand it, the preference for repeating links in a table has to do with sortable tables. Tables here aren't sortable yet. Can you find some examples of tables on Wikipedia with links repeated in this way? --[[User:Tepples|Tepples]] 19:42, 3 January 2011 (MST)
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**See the tables in [[wikipedia:List of Virtual Console games for Wii (North America)]], noting that they are sortable (so it doesn't say much about ''this'' wiki). [[User:Eighty5cacao|Eighty5cacao]] 22:30, 9 September 2011 (MST) (+ 04:17, 5 September 2013 (UTC))
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== An apology, and general comments on my drafting style ==
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Regarding [//pineight.com/mw/index.php?title=User:Eighty5cacao/Manual_of_Style_(songs_that_sound_alike)&diff=2904&oldid=2896 this]: Thank you for clarifying what I meant. I didn't mean to favor any kind of elitism (though there does seem to be some distinction here as to which users are "trusted"), and I was knowingly being a little sloppy with the wording.
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What do I mean by "sloppy"? In my userspace drafts, especially within the first few edits, I often write in a manner that less than accurately expresses what is really on my mind. Hard as it may be, the details of my wording should be taken with a grain of salt. You may have seen signs of this previously on [[User:Eighty5cacao/misc/Aspie notes]] and its subpage. [[User:Eighty5cacao|Eighty5cacao]] 13:53, 6 March 2011 (MST) (last edit 14:05, 6 March 2011 (MST))
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:I understand. Sloppy can always be cleaned up later. But as for a recording artist's aliases, I can see making a distinction between someone who has recorded under multiple aliases (e.g. Naoki Maeda or Kyle Ward) and someone who has used only one (e.g. Lady Gaga or BanYa). That's sort of what I meant by linking to [[allthetropes:Do Not Call Me Paul|Do Not Call Me Paul]]<!-- link was originally to the corresponding article on the original TV Tropes -->: there isn't a BLP issue, but Miss Poker Face is known to the public as Lady Gaga and only Lady Gaga. --[[User:Tepples|Tepples]] 14:53, 6 March 2011 (MST)
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::About Lady Gaga in particular: it seems her real name is [http://www.cracked.com/article_19916_6-mind-blowing-early-music-careers-famous-musicians.html fairly well known] (and also on [[wikipedia:Lady Gaga|the Wikipedia article]]). Do we need to use it? [[User:Eighty5cacao|Eighty5cacao]] 20:13, 10 July 2012 (MST)
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:::Even if people know her legal name, almost nobody knows ''Red and Blue'', as the article points out: "any trace of the Stefani Germanotta who just sang over a piano was mostly gone by the time Lady Gaga's first album was released." Case in point: [[Wikipedia:Red and Blue]] only mentions first-generation ''Pokémon'' games and the standard (since 2000) coloring for U.S. states on election results maps. So it's nothing like a Kyle Ward or Naoki Maeda case, where someone familiar with a song by one of an artist's pseudonyms is likely to be familiar with a song by another. --[[User:Tepples|Tepples]] 03:35, 11 July 2012 (MST)
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::::In that case, what wording should we put in the MoS to express that "Stefani Germanotta (as Lady Gaga)" is unnecessarily pedantic to the point of being confusing? [[User:Eighty5cacao|Eighty5cacao]] 21:49, 12 July 2012 (MST)
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:::::[[wikipedia:WP:NICKNAME|Wikipedia's guideline]] might help. --[[User:Tepples|Tepples]] ([[User talk:Tepples|talk]]) 14:53, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
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== Ti Sento ==
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In your opinion, which of the existing pages would be most appropriate for discussing the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adN_mak-jzY Matia Bazar], [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmaTESu10rY Technoboy], and [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEmG6w-KFno Scooter] versions of "[[wikipedia:Ti Sento|Ti Sento]]," among which there is probably some authorized reuse? (The [[wikipedia:Luciano Ligabue|Ligabue]] song of the same title is unrelated.) Or do we need to create a new page? [[User:Eighty5cacao|Eighty5cacao]] 20:48, 14 March 2011 (MST)
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:For sampling/covering that is most likely authorized, a new page should be better, just as we have a separate page for games that cover the PD. --[[User:Tepples|Tepples]] 17:29, 15 March 2011 (MST)
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::To clarify: Technoboy's reuse of Matia Bazar's material is probably authorized, but Scooter's reuse is dubious &mdash; IIRC Technoboy has complained on his website, and Scooter already has a reputation for being more a "<span class="plainlinks">[http://lyrics.wikia.com/Scooter:Maria_(I_Like_It_Loud) rearr][http://lyrics.wikia.com/Scooter:The_Question_Is_What_Is_The_Question%3F anger]</span>" than a producer of original content.<!-- I tried to type [[wikia:lyrics:Scooter:Maria (I Like It Loud)|...]] but that redirected to a page that said no results were found -->
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::Also, I am a bit too busy to work on such a page now. [[User:Eighty5cacao|Eighty5cacao]] 23:34, 15 March 2011 (MST)
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:::I fixed a problem with Wikia's interwiki redirector. Now <code><nowiki>[[wikia:lyrics:Scooter:Maria (I Like It Loud)|Maria (I Like It Loud)]]</nowiki></code> produces [[wikia:lyrics:Scooter:Maria (I Like It Loud)|Maria (I Like It Loud)]] as expected. --[[User:Tepples|Tepples]] 16:39, 16 March 2011 (MST)
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:::←
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Okay, thank you. I thought at first I had made a typo, as I tried previewing (but not saving) [[wikia:chdk:CHDK|<code><nowiki>[[wikia:chdk:CHDK]]</nowiki></code>]] in a user sandbox, which went to http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK even before the fix. But I digress. [[User:Eighty5cacao|Eighty5cacao]] 18:21, 16 March 2011 (MST)
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== Anchors in Wikipedia links ==
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How should we clarify in this MOS whether/when anchors like [//pineight.com/mw/index.php?title=Songs_that_sound_alike_%28video_games%29&diff=2975&oldid=2935 this] are necessary? [[User:Eighty5cacao|Eighty5cacao]] 22:24, 14 March 2011 (MST) (last edit 22:33, 14 March 2011 (MST))
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:Something like this: If a song has no Wikipedia article, link to the album, film, game, or other work with multiple movements in which the song is featured. If the article has a section about that song, link to that section. --[[User:Tepples|Tepples]] 17:37, 15 March 2011 (MST)
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::Oh, well, that means I'll probably have to go back and add anchors to some of my entries. I was hoping to avoid that &mdash; could we make exceptions for cases where the appropriate anchor is close enough to the top of the article? (That is, it is unnecessary to link directly to the anchor if its name is obvious and it can be easily found within one screen height of the top of the Wp article, for some reasonable choice of screen resolution.) Admittedly, that wouldn't apply to most of the DDR cases. [[User:Eighty5cacao|Eighty5cacao]] 18:50, 15 March 2011 (MST) (last edit 08:04, 16 March 2011 (MST))
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:::"...link to that section; this is optional but recommended especially if the section is below [[wikipedia:Above the fold|the fold]]." Does that capture what you were thinking? --[[User:Tepples|Tepples]] 05:53, 17 March 2011 (MST)
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::::Yes, I think that's fine. [[User:Eighty5cacao|Eighty5cacao]] 09:08, 17 March 2011 (MST)
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=== Repetition of common names ===
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Also relevant to that edit is the question of whether <code>''Common Name'' (as ''Pseudonym'')</code> should be repeated in full, or whether it is sufficient to use the pseudonym alone on the second and subsequent mentions of an artist if there is no need to disambiguate between that artist and another with a similar pseudonym. [[User:Eighty5cacao|Eighty5cacao]] 22:36, 14 March 2011 (MST) (last edit 11:07, 31 December 2011 (MST))
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:As for what a "need to disambiguate" means: See [[wikipedia:Maurizio De Jorio#Former aliases|"Derreck Simons" and "Max Coveri."]] --[[User:Eighty5cacao|Eighty5cacao]] ([[User talk:Eighty5cacao|talk]]) 00:48, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 14:53, 24 May 2016

Interpretation of WP:REPEATLINK[edit]

WP:REPEATLINK gives "where the links are in a table" as an exception, so the corresponding rule here may need rethinking. Eighty5cacao 01:57, 6 December 2010 (MST)

  • As I understand it, the preference for repeating links in a table has to do with sortable tables. Tables here aren't sortable yet. Can you find some examples of tables on Wikipedia with links repeated in this way? --Tepples 19:42, 3 January 2011 (MST)

An apology, and general comments on my drafting style[edit]

Regarding this: Thank you for clarifying what I meant. I didn't mean to favor any kind of elitism (though there does seem to be some distinction here as to which users are "trusted"), and I was knowingly being a little sloppy with the wording.

What do I mean by "sloppy"? In my userspace drafts, especially within the first few edits, I often write in a manner that less than accurately expresses what is really on my mind. Hard as it may be, the details of my wording should be taken with a grain of salt. You may have seen signs of this previously on User:Eighty5cacao/misc/Aspie notes and its subpage. Eighty5cacao 13:53, 6 March 2011 (MST) (last edit 14:05, 6 March 2011 (MST))

I understand. Sloppy can always be cleaned up later. But as for a recording artist's aliases, I can see making a distinction between someone who has recorded under multiple aliases (e.g. Naoki Maeda or Kyle Ward) and someone who has used only one (e.g. Lady Gaga or BanYa). That's sort of what I meant by linking to Do Not Call Me Paul: there isn't a BLP issue, but Miss Poker Face is known to the public as Lady Gaga and only Lady Gaga. --Tepples 14:53, 6 March 2011 (MST)
About Lady Gaga in particular: it seems her real name is fairly well known (and also on the Wikipedia article). Do we need to use it? Eighty5cacao 20:13, 10 July 2012 (MST)
Even if people know her legal name, almost nobody knows Red and Blue, as the article points out: "any trace of the Stefani Germanotta who just sang over a piano was mostly gone by the time Lady Gaga's first album was released." Case in point: Wikipedia:Red and Blue only mentions first-generation Pokémon games and the standard (since 2000) coloring for U.S. states on election results maps. So it's nothing like a Kyle Ward or Naoki Maeda case, where someone familiar with a song by one of an artist's pseudonyms is likely to be familiar with a song by another. --Tepples 03:35, 11 July 2012 (MST)
In that case, what wording should we put in the MoS to express that "Stefani Germanotta (as Lady Gaga)" is unnecessarily pedantic to the point of being confusing? Eighty5cacao 21:49, 12 July 2012 (MST)
Wikipedia's guideline might help. --Tepples (talk) 14:53, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Ti Sento[edit]

In your opinion, which of the existing pages would be most appropriate for discussing the Matia Bazar, Technoboy, and Scooter versions of "Ti Sento," among which there is probably some authorized reuse? (The Ligabue song of the same title is unrelated.) Or do we need to create a new page? Eighty5cacao 20:48, 14 March 2011 (MST)

For sampling/covering that is most likely authorized, a new page should be better, just as we have a separate page for games that cover the PD. --Tepples 17:29, 15 March 2011 (MST)
To clarify: Technoboy's reuse of Matia Bazar's material is probably authorized, but Scooter's reuse is dubious — IIRC Technoboy has complained on his website, and Scooter already has a reputation for being more a "rearranger" than a producer of original content.
Also, I am a bit too busy to work on such a page now. Eighty5cacao 23:34, 15 March 2011 (MST)
I fixed a problem with Wikia's interwiki redirector. Now [[wikia:lyrics:Scooter:Maria (I Like It Loud)|Maria (I Like It Loud)]] produces Maria (I Like It Loud) as expected. --Tepples 16:39, 16 March 2011 (MST)

Okay, thank you. I thought at first I had made a typo, as I tried previewing (but not saving) [[wikia:chdk:CHDK]] in a user sandbox, which went to http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK even before the fix. But I digress. Eighty5cacao 18:21, 16 March 2011 (MST)

Anchors in Wikipedia links[edit]

How should we clarify in this MOS whether/when anchors like this are necessary? Eighty5cacao 22:24, 14 March 2011 (MST) (last edit 22:33, 14 March 2011 (MST))

Something like this: If a song has no Wikipedia article, link to the album, film, game, or other work with multiple movements in which the song is featured. If the article has a section about that song, link to that section. --Tepples 17:37, 15 March 2011 (MST)
Oh, well, that means I'll probably have to go back and add anchors to some of my entries. I was hoping to avoid that — could we make exceptions for cases where the appropriate anchor is close enough to the top of the article? (That is, it is unnecessary to link directly to the anchor if its name is obvious and it can be easily found within one screen height of the top of the Wp article, for some reasonable choice of screen resolution.) Admittedly, that wouldn't apply to most of the DDR cases. Eighty5cacao 18:50, 15 March 2011 (MST) (last edit 08:04, 16 March 2011 (MST))
"...link to that section; this is optional but recommended especially if the section is below the fold." Does that capture what you were thinking? --Tepples 05:53, 17 March 2011 (MST)
Yes, I think that's fine. Eighty5cacao 09:08, 17 March 2011 (MST)

Repetition of common names[edit]

Also relevant to that edit is the question of whether Common Name (as Pseudonym) should be repeated in full, or whether it is sufficient to use the pseudonym alone on the second and subsequent mentions of an artist if there is no need to disambiguate between that artist and another with a similar pseudonym. Eighty5cacao 22:36, 14 March 2011 (MST) (last edit 11:07, 31 December 2011 (MST))

As for what a "need to disambiguate" means: See "Derreck Simons" and "Max Coveri." --Eighty5cacao (talk) 00:48, 21 August 2013 (UTC)